Poll: One Year Later, What Are Your Thoughts on Final Fantasy 16?

Thoughts? I barely even give it a second thought.

Square Enix: "witness me!"
My Response: "Mediocre bloodbag, mediocre!"

A flashy but basic action game pretending to be more with a lot of shallow layers piled on to give the illusion of an ARPG with depth.

For me, still a fantastic game, but I'll definitely be skipping the vast majority of side quests when I play it again.

Will likely start it over on PS5 Pro, and I'm looking forward to it. Really does have some of the most spectacular boss fights in gaming.

It's an ok game, expected a better story from the head guy from ff14 , misses a lot from the main games. Elements are pointless,upgraded weapons don't really do a lot , a lot of palette swaps for enemies and ekon abilities are practically the same with different elements across the ekons.

My least favorite FF game. I’m a big fan of the series but this just didn’t speak to me at all, both from a setting and gameplay point of view.

Fine but flashy action game. Terrible FF game. Nothing outside visual references felt like FF. If you’re going to go real-time action you’ve got to find ways to bring forward meaningful gameplay elements from previous installments to capture the spirit of the series. The worst, most mundane fetch quests imaginable hampered the game further.

Same opinion as after i finished it.
It's a good game, i liked it very much. I saw the clear hand of what is the ffxiv team and what they have delivered in the past years and it was good.
But, i still want a return to a more classic ATB formula for another entry.

But let's be honest. The problem is the volume of games is different nowadays and the FF's of before need several entries of today to remake. That means that new entries will never be as good as they used to be. So, i think they should investigate ways to recreate that volume.
The good old traversable world maps weren't bad and made the world feel bigger, for example. I think they need to review what made the classics good and iterate on it. I think we are hitting too many samey action rpg's.

If it had been a tight 15-20 hour game, I would have liked it much more than I did. As it is, I never want to play it again simply because there is an insane amount of excruciating bloat to slog through to get to the good stuff.

I certainly enjoyed my time with 16. It's not my favorite FF and has its issues but it was definitely a good game. The combat was fun even though it was a bit brain-dead at times. The boss fights were incredible and the world itself was rich with great lore.

Again wouldn't put it at the top of my favorite FF list but overall I really liked it. Still need to go back to play the DLC.

A good game that could've and should've been even better. With the story being a letdown despite it still having a good cast with amazing moments sprinkled in. It also could've used more engaging side activities with fulfilling rewards. It was still fun as he'll running around the gorgeous world to hunt monsters tho. I still had a fun time with it overall but it wasn't what I was hoping for it to be

Great game!! Not without flaws, but when it's good, it's VERY GOOD. Already finished it and currently in my second, final fantasy mode playthrough. I will get the plat.

Final Fantasy died and was buried two decades ago. 9 was the last true FF (and my favorite game of all time) in my opinion. 10 would have been okay but Tidus being the worst protag in any game ever ruined it. 12 was alright.
I'm just praying for that FF9 remaster (hopefully a faithful one) so I can say goodbye to the series forever.
I understand if turn based combat has to go the way of the earth but there are SO many other things that made FF magical they have chosen to abandon. Its sad to see my favorite game series fall so far but nothing good lasts forever. If I had my way, Square would pump out smaller budget titles with turn based combat and even pre-rendered backgrounds like the golden era but with modern graphics and load times. Can you even imagine??

It's a great game. I admit that I wasn't the biggest fan of the combat system in the early game, but by the end it gets so much better. I also really enjoyed the story, characters and the world.

Massively disappointing and the underwhelming story is criminal from the team behind FF14 which has great story telling through it's expansions.

@Dragon83 The paltry enemy variety was one of the more egregious parts for me, especially for a game of this length. I think I groaned out loud every time that fat guy with an ax or a color-swapped dragon showed up as a boss.

Twas a really good game but a few things prevented it from being great. It couldve been much shorter, the eikon abilities shouldn't have cooldown, ultima should've just been scrapped from the story and it focuses on the warring countries and stuff, Barnabas should've been the main villain or maybe his mother who could've corrupted him or something, fewer side quests and maybe some other things I can't really think of right now. It basically needed some fat trimmed off of it. I also think the moveset could've been expanded. It didn't feel like enough. Perhaps Jill, Joshua, and Cid could've been playable

Absolute banger!

I loved FF16. Not perfect in performance, but the story and characters, especially Clive, were near top in the series for me. I place Clive as the best protagonist in Final Fantasy, and I have been there from the start on NES. As I have seen the series evolve constantly with almost every release, I don't have objections to the change from turn-based combat, or even party mechanics.

@kyleforrester87 Elements of it are good. But it barely qualifies as a Final Fantasy game. It’s closest to XII and XIII in terms of the way it interprets the mythos but you might as well just be playing any ‘dark fantasy’ game of the last 15 years. Side quests are rancid but there’s a few moments in the main story that make you think it’s a better game than it is.

I am a huge Final Fantasy fan. That said FF16 is a great action game but has issues a FF game. There is non real strategy, you mash buttons, there are no elemental weaknesses or an easy way to cure yourself. The Final Fantasy mode was a letdown.

But the worst thing is the story. There is huge and excellent backstory and lore. But the whole events from the game as non sensical even if you apply video game logic. The team basically helped in the destruction of the world and all major cities have been destroyed.

They gave up in the ending. They didn't know what ending to do and we had this surreal thing where either if the 3 characters that were there may or may not be dead.

Rebirth is a much better game than 16.

Absolutely fantastic game! The story was gripping and more "a fantasy based on reality" than XV was. The characters felt very human to me. The music was top notch and the gameplay was epic. I was happy with the lack of minigames as I'm drowning in the in Rebirth, Side content could have been better tho. In my top 3 FF games of all time.

Enjoyed it a lot, which was a pretty big surprise for me. FF hasnt been stellar in a while, Ive been playing them since the first came out, and definitely prefer the classics. (4 being my favorite)

However, they did an admirable job of making the game feel final fantasy while being more action based.

It has a lot of room for improvement, but i rank it higher than anything post X (including sub series games like crisis core and x-2) as well as better than 8 or 9.

Hopefully they keep this path and just layer in more depth. (Id like to see a return to rare item drops and rare monsters like you had with early versions. I loved the pink puffs in iv)

One of my fave games this gen obviously! Highly recommend anyone with a PS5.

Not perfect, especially the final third brought it down a bit personally. But havn't enjoyed a (new) FF game in a looooooong time.

It's incredible. I like it better than both FF7 remakes which are some of my all time favorites

Finished it once and came away disappointed.
I was surprised by how much of a non RPG this game was.
It's an alright action game, but a rubbish Final Fantasy.

Great game. The Eikon battles are still the highlights for me and I just love the characters and Soken doesn't disappoint when it comes to the soundtrack as expected

It was a fantastic game, especially coming from FFXV disaster and compared to the the garbage that was FF7-Rebirth.

Great characters, great boss fights (Titan desert boss fights that was designed by three Square Enix legendary encounter designers were definitely my favourite), awesome cinematics, excellent darker mature storyline, and actually fun combat for an RPG.

CBUIII really did a great job on this game and if there's one thing their experience kinda goes against them, is the sheer amount of irrelevant bloated side quests that plagued the game especially closer to the end. That definitely came from their MMO experience.

I played through a bit of it but it just didn't gel with me and never finished it. I really liked the combat but everything else was just kinda meh to me.

Absolute masterclass of a game. The game has it's issues like the boring side quests, but the story, characters, and OST are best in class. Clive is by far the best FF protagonist. Anyone who says it's not a real Final Fantasy games are fools and they know nothing about Final Fantasy. People said Final Fantasy VII wasn't a Final Fantasy game when it was released. Every Final Fantasy game that comes out "isn't a Final Fantasy game". When FF XVII comes out people will look back fondly on XVI just like they do with XV and even XIII. It's the best Final Fantasy since VIII and an excellent step in the right direction for the series.

Loved it.

But the DLC was not what I wanted. Tons of back story and characters they could have used to really flesh out the world.

Really enjoyed the game and the story and gameplay were really good. But for final fantasy 17 I do want a party back and I do want more rpg elements than 16 had

These kinds of comments sections are always so predictable. Why are some people on here still commenting about the series if they've hated it for over 20 years? Absolutely baffling.

based on these comments, i can see why the game sold poorly and failed to meet expectations. if core FF fans are generally not feeling good about it then it never stood a chance. i believe this will not go unnoticed and s-e will be taking the next mainline entry in a more traditional direction.

A decent 7. But not a main line ff title. Change some names and slap a new title on it (last retribution, infinite desperation or some other awesomely bad name) and you wouldnt have bat an eye lid.

@Ashkorsair So basically The Last Remnant 😂

Played the demo - performance outside of battles was p### poor, so for the 1st time in a long time for FF i skipped.

Square are really in trouble if this is what they are capable of - it didnt look that visually good either - Hogwarts in its highest performance could hit 100fps, do more, and look better.

None of it was difficult. The story is alright but there was no challenge. I don't know about the latest dlc but I'm not downloading the full game again for this title.

Barnabas second fight on nightmare was the only time I struggled. Even the I beat it after three tries using one potion. I didn't realize that I was very undergeared when I did it.

The new dlc does look more challenging from the outside in. Bur I'm not taking the risk of being disappointed further by 16

The main course is really good and the graphics are jaw dropping. The side dishes and dressing leave something to be desired. It's a really good game, but Final Fantasy is no longer the J(RPG) alpha it once was. In recent times I've enjoyed the latest games from other series more, Tales of, Dragon Quest, and Persona.

It's a curious blend of East and West, and master of neither.

Comments: Bad game, not a real Final Fantasy, etc.

Poll: 48% Fantastic game, 24% Good game.

I really enjoyed it but I'm in that mindset of accepting different FF games as self-contained experiences, in gameplay and otherwise. Everything was great apart from the lulls during side-quests, which were extremely bland. The presentation was the biggest feat imo. It all looked epic.

I haven't played the DLC but I'd award the base game a solid 8/10 (going by Push's scale), and recommend it to any fan of action-RPGs.

Solid return to form for the franchise. Amazing music, world building, and boss fights. Decent enough game play. Terrible performance with fps drops and non existent RPG mechanics.

IMO, Final Fantasy 16 is fantastic. It’s in the top tier of Final Fantasy games. The characters, story, boss fights, and combat are all top notch. I love when my favorite series take chances and try something new and I feel Final Fantasy excels in that department.

The gameplay loop was more Warriors than traditional Final Fantasy. It was fun while I was learning the controls, but at a point I just found myself doing the same list of stuff to win. If the game was 10-15 hours shorter I doubt it would have been so noticeable.

Plus the story was pure waffle.

I really enjoyed it, it was the first Final Fantasy game I ever bought and don't regret it. Probably about a 8.5. I look back at it already with rose tinted spectacles, which is a good sign.

one year later ... I just finished the game at launch and that's it, enjoyed the story and all, no second thoughs or third thoughs cause i'm not gonna touch it ever again

I loved it, FF8 was the first game that really sucked me in and I’ve been a big fan of the series ever since. But 16 was the first game since 10 I truly enjoyed - great characters, story and spectacle. Though Jill is an incredibly dull character who had so much potential early on, wasted opportunity to give her a real arc.

Its okay for a mainline FF title, thats all I will say about it here.

I thought it was a fantastic game and probably my game of the year for 2023. My only complaint is the boring side quests but that doesn't take away from the beautiful visuals, gripping story and great combat.

I was never a FF guy and my first was FFXV and I played that game a lot, multiple playthroughs. I wanted to love this game as well but I got a bit into the story don't really know how far but i stopped playing and haven't gone back and dont really know why. I figure eventually I'll go back and finish it and probably be kicking myself for not finishing it sooner.

It's a fantastic game. The music is unreal (dare I say leaps ahead of much of Rebirth) - although I didn't vibe with the Titan boss battle music.

The Eikon battles were spectacular - if a little basic in terms of the mechanics.

I loved the story and the characters, and the battle system was a lot of fun (not sure I want it for all of my FF games, but I enjoyed it for this).

Definitely a few flaws - the side quests were generally pretty dull - go here, kill this - when there would have been an opportunity to try something a bit different to add even a little levity into proceedings - although I did like how finishing these helped the hideaway to grow.

And at least the single moogle in the game actually.... looked...like...a...moogle (seriously, what are those things in FF7 Rebirth? Nightmare fuel!)

A great game that I will definitely be returning to.

@KundaliniRising333

I was incredibly disappointed. I love final fantasy. Played nearly all of them but I just couldn't get into FF16.

I made it more than halfway through but found myself forcing myself to finish it instead of wanting to play it.

FFXVI was my GotY last year. An amazing experience.

For what it was I really liked it, and I’m planning on getting the dlc. I got it a couple of months ago on sale. I bought a console for FFX though

I loved it. The stakes and dark tone take a nosedive towards the end of the story, but I really enjoyed most of it as well as the cast. Combat could have been harder and exploration is the game's weakest point by far, but overall there was so much for me to enjoy here that the shortcomings pale in comparison.

@Porco Please don't make the mistake of seeing 5 people comment and then thinking that's a representation of the entire fanbase. I mean no disrespect, it's just not a good analysis.

Edit: There are also just as many fans praising the game in the comments as there are hating on it so I don't see how you came to the conclusion you did anyway if I'm being completely honest.

I didn't like it.

Amazing game, my favourite FF. Plan on doing a second playthrough towards the end of the year along with the DLCs.

Boss fights were great. Most of the rest was average. Side (and not so side) quests were utterly deplorable.

The disconnect between the poll and the comments is kinda extreme but I’m not surprised. These comment sections are just the same small group of people doing their negative take circle jerk routine over and over again.

The people that actually love playing games are too busy having fun.

It’s a good game.

It’s not a great final fantasy.

Boring, primitive, brown and gray, insultingly easy and extremely bland.
After this and that FFVII fanfiction Square is FFXIV company for me.

It's been ages since final fantasy had a good and interesting protagonist, it was fairly refreshing,.fantastic game, loved the combat, love the cutscene summon battles, I hope they continue to move FF forward with such greatness

Yeah i wasnt overly keen on it really. Seemed like they tried to "Game of thrones" it a bit and in the process it lost all of its goofyness. I still own it and will eventually play it to completion but its one of my least favorite FF games.

mediocre at best, boring characters, abysimal side quests and braindead button-mashing combat.

not my final fantasy

Rebirth is much better.

It's a good game if I don't think of it as a Final Fantasy game ._.

It was my GOTY last year. Absolutely loved it. Clive was an amazing FF Protagonist. The visuals were stunning and the combat felt so fluid and smooth. I’m waiting a little bit for my 2nd playthrough but it’s getting harder to keep putting it off 😂😂 I get the disappointment from people. For me though, I couldn’t be happier with it

I thought ff16 was good but I never want to play it again.

It's a good game, real pretty too.

However I would never guess it was a Final Fantasy game if it wasn't for the Chocobos, Eikons, crystals and some names that is reoccuring throughout the franchise.

But when it comes to the actual gaming (because final fantasy is a game franchise) it's completely something else.

I sure hope that Final Fantasy XVII isn't a Tekken styled fighting game with a Final Fantasy story that you get to experience in cutscenes. (No offence Tekken, Love you bro)

Like I said, I enjoyed 16, but I don't agree with the change of genre.
I'd say it's about time they go back to the more tried and true formula and see if they can still innovate with that genre.

I mean if Mario and Zelda can still pull out new surprises out of the hat without changing genre, then why can't Final Fantasy do the same?

@ShogunRok perhaps you should read the comments again, it seems like most people agree that it's a good game.

Even many of those who don't think it's a proper Final Fantasy title seem to agree that it's a decent/good game.

Even though I agree that it's a good game, I feel a bit disappointed that it wasn't more of a Final Fantasy game.
And when I say Final Fantasy, I mean the core gameplay and genre.

Imagine stuffing a Tekken game full of Nintendo characters and calling it Super Smash Bros. That would disappoint a lot of people even if it turned out a fun game.

Pretty good game. Maybe I'll play it again someday in far future (skipping side quests, they make too much distraction from story tempo).

@RBMango 1000% agree

It needed more tight focus on the main story and less of the absolutely boring so called side quests. It could have went from just ok to great. It was a slog just to finish it. This, Remake and Rebirth all have the same problem with time wasting side quests and filler in my opinion. That's the biggest mistake of any game is wasting my time.

I've decided that it will be the first mainline FF game that I never play, and I've been into the series since the very start.

@invictus4000 I agree with your comments 100%. We have to come to terms with the fact that the people that made those games have moved on, retired, died, etc. and that was why the games were so great. Unfortunately that magic cannot be recreated and the modern games are Final Fantasy in name only, as you stated, the heart and soul of the series has been dead for a long time now. The same can be said about many other games, movies, etc. I guess it’s all just part of getting old.

Loved the darker and more serious tone.
I often find modern JRPG to be too cringe and annoying.
But this felt like a more grown up FF.

I like it but wish it was open world and had different playable characters like final fantasy 7

Combat was too basic. No elemental damage/weaknesses. No status effects, which made fighting the Marlboro pointless. Wanna be edgy dialogue. The boss fights were very basic and got old pretty quick. Too much emphasis was put on spectacle.
It looked nice but performed poorly. A few cool characters but also some annoying ones. Overall it's not a bad game. Just not a good Final Fantasy, imo. It's near the bottom of the list for me.

Rather disappointing.
Lack of (stable) 60fps, average exploration and good old shimmering between walls make this into sth not quite the premiere next gen experience I thought it would be.
The game also has a ton of minor annoyances, not being able to run in the settlements is mind boggling for instance.
This one area in Dhalmekia looks especially bland, straight up gave me ps2 ptsd despite not playing on the thing haha
Currently about 72% in according to the tracker after 40sth hours.
It's def got good things going for it, especially the blood splatters in cutscenes after fights is something I can appreciate.
And it is definitely very flashy, eikon fights can be very sick.
But for all the gold coming out of japan this is one of the few franchises I can not be bothered with it seems.
Will forever wonder why people like these games so much.
Anyway this about sums it up:

@ChrisDeku do you always dismiss legit criticism from actual fans of Final Fantasy with juvenile comments? Simply because it doesn't agree with your view point? I can see why people love this game but most of (not all) the criticism I'm reading is valid. And it's ok to disagree. No need for insults.

@Netret0120 I had several friends, all big FF fans, stop part way through. The combat was not complex enough to hold them. That along with poor performance pushed them to stop.

FF in name only and proof that Yoshi P should just stay making his MMO. Poor combat, washed out visuals, linear world and a bland lead with a performance that feels like it belongs in a straight to DVD british gangster film. Only real high points are the boss fights (though they drag on), music and Cid.

Amazing game.final fantasy 16 is one of the best final fantasy video games ever made.word up son

@ChrisDeku The article is about what we think a year on its not a place to just jerk over the game. You love the game good for you but many FF fans don't because its not really a FF game.

@Synthatron_Prime

Its really not. I missed having party members to control and previous entries had much deeper combat to master.

I understand they were experimenting with this but it strayed too much away from Final Fantasy. Felt like I was playing a worse version of Game Of Thrones

I liked it alright, 8/10.

I'm not sure I totally agree it's 'not a Final Fantasy game'. It's a sorta FF game thematically and visually. Like if FF was mixed with bog-standard medieval European fantasy. I don't use gameplay to really determine if a game is FF because if that was the bar the series ended at either IX or X.

In terms of gameplay it's a good action game, not great, for 90% of the runtime. The boss fights are electric, which carried me through the rather blah plot because I knew there would be a payoff every now and then.

I can totally understand why longtime FF fans wouldn't care for it. I can also understand why people like it more than XV (though that game is closer to the FF spirit than XVI imo) because it at least felt coherent rather than thrown together.

XVI was searching for a new audience. I'm not sure if they found it, but that was clearly the goal. As a longtime fan that's disappointing because westernizing JRPGs tends to rob them of their charm a bit. I do hope XVII goes back to the series roots but I don't have much faith it will. It's a shame because other games like Persona 5 and SMT5 are proving there is plenty of life left in turn-based JRPGs if you do them well.

Square-Enix is chasing the western audience. I don't much care for that but I don't expect it to change.

Still an action game overall, but Final Fantasy none the less. The pacing really feels like the first 6 though I’m still missing the party management.

@ChrisDeku That seems to happen a lot, but there's almost always more to say when it's negative rather than positive. Either way, the comments are far from a comprehensive comparison to the poll with almost 1500 votes against under 100 comments.

@kyleforrester87 Up to you but I have a friend who did not vibe with Sea of Stars. But he loved XVI so 🤷🏾‍♂️

Reading these comments you would think no one liked this game yet the poll show more than half think its really good.

@3Above Final Fantasy in general tends to hit pretty hard when you find it and the fans tend to score the new ones pretty low. When 17 drops there’ll be a lot of talk about the old ones being better. I found it around X and the constant is that when the soundtrack and character writing are good it will get canonized. 16 is just a matter of time.

Incredibly disappointing.

Super strong demo but the middle of the game dragged and tried so hard to be grimdark that it lost believability as a setting. Ending felt unearned. Combat was okay. Honestly I tend to forget it exists outside of occasionally seeing event items in ff14.

This one is for the Push Square staff, have you thought about having a poll that measures what makes a Final Fantasy game in general? The fan base seems pretty divided so some conversations about it could be helpful.

I actually quite liked the story, warts and all - it really wanted to be Game of Thrones in tone, which makes sense given when development of the game started. The voice acting was on point. It was gorgeous to look at.

I'm mystified by the combat. Nier Automata came out in 2017, and it has some of the tightest action melee in any game ever. FF16 has OK combat (better than FF7 Re-X anyway), but it's disappointing for a main line title in SE's biggest IP to not stack up against a title that they also published 6 years prior. I didn't care for the big Eikon battles - they would just drag out so so so dang long. I was tired of QTEs 10 years ago, and sticking them in a game in 2023 was just...eh.

I stuck with the game, did all the side quests, and even did the first DLC as I was at the end of the game when it came out, so it was convenient. Solid 6.5/10 for me.

Good game. Great combat. I love Clive and Joshua and the killing god stuff. Eikon fights and music are awesome!

Disliked: the quest design sucks, the villains suck, the politics is so bad only a Japanese team could've written it and thought it was good, any time it wants to be Game of Thrones it falls on its face. Jill is wasted. The world is drab. Side quests are awful, lack of enemy variety. poor performance.

I gave it an 8 and while I stand by that score I think if I were being realistic and were there more competition for action games like this it would go down to a 7.

The poll showed 48% said XVI is a fantastic game and 26% said it's a good game but the comment section feels like it's a mixed of bag game lol.

Anyway...I'm not yet played this game although it's in my wishlist since i watched the Eikon vs Eikon trailer which was epic af and reminds me a bit of FF IX Bahamut vs Alexander fight scene. And the focus on summon that plays important role in the main story also feels inspired by classic FF like VI, IX, and X.

But i roll my eyes every time i see comments who claim "FF is dead decades ago" because the series isn't used traditional turn based RPG anymore. Then i see Octopath Traveler 2 which is inspired by classic FF or quite safe to say it is a classic FF game but without Chocobo, Cid, or summon and thinking why it only sold 1 million copies ww?

On the other hand. FF XV sold 10 million copies, XVI sold like what over 3 million copies?, and VII Remake sold 7 million copies + Rebirth probably at 2-2.5 million copies.

The contrast for sales numbers between modern FF with JRPG inspired by classic FF + turn based like Octopath Traveler 2 are really big. So i'm not sure if the majority of FF fans really wants the series to go back with traditional turn based again.

The demo, which was the beginning of the game, sold me on it but I feel that the rest of the game never really eclipsed that start. Most of the story and characters were rather forgettable, I thought. I honestly enjoyed XIII more.

Took me 9 months to finally finish the game. The payoff was not worth it. The ending was predictable and lame. I spent 100 hours+ for that, come on man lol. The world felt empty. The soul just was not there for me. I felt like this world being focused directly on a small island of what is possibly a huge ass planet of other continents was very strange. I did enjoy some of the characters though. Joshua was a highlight.

@ApostateMage XIII is an underrated classic, and unique, too. How many other cel-shaded FPS games has there been. 😉

Loathed it. I would not p*ss on this game if it was on Firaga.

@invictus4000 Wow, I agree with every point you made (aside from Tidus being that bad). I would love for them to return the series to something recognizable that imitates the gameplay/character design/art style/music/budget of the older games. I know they've been giving us Bravely/Octopath/Star Ocean/Saga/etc. to meet the demands of longtime fans, but I want that classic feel to come back to Final Fantasy instead. It'd be so exciting for the series to rediscover its original personality, at least for every other entry or so (or more if they can fit a few in between the big-budget action games). FF9 perfected what FF was, and although I really liked FF10, it was definitely the first of many steps toward whatever this unrecognizable imitation is now.

@PuppetMaster As someone who wants them to go back to the classic style, I see your point. However, a large part of the sales will always be based on the FF name. Many fans have been following this series for years and buying every entry, happily or begrudgingly. Even new players who've never experienced an FF game can see how beloved it is to everyone else based on that 15 or 16 after the title. Something like the Octopath series, while great, doesn't have the clout yet. Also, having the FF series return to its roots doesn't necessarily mean using the HD-2D style.. they could do something much more interesting with turn-based combat like we've seen with Persona or the upcoming Expedition 33. They could bring a lot more players into the series if the series had an identity — and why not have that identity align a little more closely with the games that gave the series its credibility in the first place?

@mikeawmids *Fire 3

@Cloud39472 That's a fair assessment, although players can enjoy a game but still prefer something else. Or appreciate what they have while hoping the next entry is closer to what they wanted. I've enjoyed FF12-15 (waiting for 16 on PC) and several modern spin-offs.. I even thought XIII-2 and Lightning Returns were really good. But I'd be much happier if FF17 was an evolution of older FFs instead of a racing game.

I will never understand the acclaim this got. Probably the least interesting gameplay ever in a Final Fantasy game, and I don’t know how anyone could claim otherwise.
It doesn’t matter how deep the micromanaging goes, if you can just beat the game by button mashing. Completely out of balance.
If THIS is what we get instead of turn based combat, please bring it back now. Dragon Quest and Octopath are doing it, so why wouldn’t it be used for the series that helped make the genre famous?

@fluffiethesock Right but some of these comments are implying they haven't liked the series for decades so why are they still here? It's bizzare. I can't imagine holding onto something for that long and still thinking you're going to get your "return to form".

Ever since 7 this sort of conversation around what is or isn't FF has reared it's ugly head and it's so tiring.

You couldn't have enjoyed them that much when you called the games after 10 an unrecognisable imitation. I've genuinely enjoyed every FF mainline game except maybe the first 3 and FF5? And I would say all of them despite their differences in gameplay all have that distinct FF flavour.

I see these takes a lot "what if the next ones a racing game" "what if the next one is like Tekken". It's disengenuine. The series identity hasn't completely changed because they decided to go from turn based to action combat. If that was the case then Yakuza died after 6 or Mario died as soon as it started going 3D or Resident Evil when it ditched tank controls etc.

A lot of these comments are on point with their criticism. For me the side quests were painful but the glaring issue with the game is the combat. No strategy needed besides stagger and then unload your abilities to do as much damage as possible. This was the killer for me when I realised that it was just never gonna get anymore deep than that. Once you realise the gameplay loop is so basic the game then just became a chore. Still finished it as I really liked the story but I stopped enjoying playing around 30% of the way through

@fluffiethesock Cmiiw. I read from an interview that the founding father of FF, Hironobu Sakaguchi himself said that he doesn't want FF series stuck with the same formula but he wants it to keep evolved and different based on the director / team who works on the game. He also said FF XVI is the ultimate FF after he finished it.

So FF fans needs to accept the nature that FF series are and will always changing. That's why we got multiple different combat system since FF IV. Like ATB that makes the battle feels a lot more faster and it was a break from traditional turn based formula and more real time action. Then we got Gambit in FF XII that plays more real time and like MMO'ish than traditional turn based. Then CSB in FF XIII where we can stack multiple command input which again doesn't play like traditional turn based. And right now where we got full action combat in XV, XVI, Crisis Core, and Type-0 or a mixed of action and ATB with VII Remake.

I'm not surprised if FF XVII will be different compare to the rest of FF and i bet some people who asked for turn based or think FF is just about crystal, Chocobo, Cid, kingdom / sci-fi, and summon will be upset lol.

And imho, traditional turn based fit well with Persona or any RPG with anime / cartoon style because the aesthetic help with the suspension of the disbelief of why each character just sit there while they got attacked by the enemies.

But then we got more and more realistic graphic and turn based feels kinda weird / akward for a game where the character model looks like a real human but they just sit there while their face got hit with a sword or got zap with a magic lol. But that's just me of course 🙏

Oh look push square trying to start a ff war again about this game it was a great game but there no reason for it pop back in people minds a year later lol

Could have been a good action game or a good JRPG instead it didn't succeed at being either.
It's more disappointing for how promising parts of it are.

I loved it but got burned out. May have to try going back to it. It was my first and to this point only FF game

The series is allowed to evolve, even to an arpg and final fantasy 7 remake/rebirth succeeded in that endeavour! 16 has failed miserably in the transition it being the most shallow and boring game I've played in years. And no, having important characters die doesn't automatically make it a more mature or profound experience with its lousy game of thrones fan fiction writing.

It's not a "great game", but I got a great deal of enjoyment from it.

Despite its flaws, I really loved it. Its heart and soul is its cast of characters and I love each and everyone of them. Clive, Jill, Cid and Gav are fantastic; brilliantly voiced as well of course.

With such a strong cast, it's easy to forgive it a couple of missteps in game design.

@glennthefrog But it doesn't play like a Final Fantasy game.
And it IS a game, it's not a movie or a TV show. So it's kind of, sort of important that the gameplay still is somewhat Final Fantasy like.

You wouldn't make a Final Fantasy themed RTS game and call it a mainline Final Fantasy title now would you?

@PuppetMaster it's true that he said that, but changing the genre is probably not what he meant.
You can still innovate within the same genre and come up with new mechanics and fun new features.

I never thought the turn-based combat felt awkward in XIII for example.
say what you will about Final Fantasy XIII, it definitely was too linear. But the combat system wasn't bad.
Although they messed it up by having a super linear growth system. Otherwise it could have been pretty great.

And you know, for me it doesn't quite need to be turn based. I would prefer turn-based but I am ok with the system they have in VII Remake and Rebirth. At least there's a bit more PRG elements in those games.

But preferably I would see them try getting back to making a classic Final Fantasy RPG game.

It's not for everyone. But isn't there plenty of action games as it is already?

@DennisReynolds Sorry man, but it's a FF game through and through. Feel free to not like it(Although a shame you're hating it to hate it), but you can't deny that it is a FF game, especially when even Hironobu Sakaguchi considers it as one.

Not an FF fan, so I can't comment as to whether it is a "true" FF or not as I don't even know what that would be.

Actually aside from playing the MMO a little bit, I've not played any FF games other than this one.

As a complete outsider, I'd say it is not an RPG.

It's more like a very long spectacle fighter.

@DaniPooo Obviously what Sakaguchi mean is FF can try different genre. I mean, we already got FF as an MMO (XI & XIV), TRPG (Tactics), fighting game (Dissidia), rhythm game (Theatrhythm), TPS (Dirge of Cerberus), and even racing (Chocobo Racing & G-Bike). Some of those games was produced under Sakaguchi himself (Tactics and XI).

Like Sakaguchi said, it all depends on the director / team who handle the game. If they think their version of FF is an action game then they have creative freedom to do it.

If Sakaguchi can appreciate and approved FF XVI as an FF game then why some fans keeps saying it's not an FF game just because the combat isn't turn based? It's just weird how some fans got stuck with the idea of "True FF game should be turn based" when 37 years later since FF I released, we got multiple FF games with different genre.

And there's plenty of turn based games in the market too. We got Pokemon series, Sea of Stars, Eiyuden Chronicles, Baldur's Gate 3, Legend of Heroes series, SMT series, Persona series, Divinity Original Sin, Darkest Dungeon, X-Com, Marvel Midnight Suns, etc.

Even SE themself produced a lot of turn based games with Dragon Quest series, Saga series, Triangle Strategy, Octopath Traveler 1 & 2, Bravely Default series, etc as the alternative for their fans who doesn't like action games.

@Nepp67 FF are JRPG's not DMC clones.

@Cloud39472 the takeaway here is: this game is incredibly divisive — perhaps even more so than ff8 and ff12. if that doesnt raise concerns for the future of the franchise, then i don't know what to say. i have been gauging the interest and response to this game for the past year and the results are always the same — very mixed with a skew towards the disappointment side of things. a final fantasy release used to be a celebration of which the entire community would be all in on and that is simply not the case anymore. there was a lot of hope that ff16 might break the spell but clearly it has not gone to plan. this is not about me or you validating our opinions, it is more about understanding what went wrong. i can assure you that s-e is not happy with the results, critically nor sales wise, so there is no reason to act as if everyone who is critical of the game is wrong and vise versa.

Just not for me.
I played the game all the way through. It is an amazing, stunning, and high quality AAA well made game. sigh... but as a long time FF gamer, long time jrpg gamer... I miss more turn based games with logic based combat, then twitch based action game. Even old action rpgs of generations past, would have more layered combat with thoughtful strategies.

The seizure inducing flashy combat, and QTE was just not my flavor of game. I appreciated the more adult story, but the story pacing and lack of interaction with the characters left me feeling they were 2dimensional meant to be reacted to only. Instead of FF characters you grow into, fight along side, empathize with and sometimes fear.

I understand this is the direction that AAA games rpgs may need to take in order to grab that next generation of gamers.
Which is fine, I just hope that FF throws us a traditional jrpg ever so often.

Final Fantasy by name
Not by gameplay.

@Porco You haven't been paying very good attention then. A FF release hasn't been 100% celebrated by the community since FF7. Just because you see the reception on the Internet as divisive, it isn't the whole picture and to claim it is based on some articles on Push Square and posts on Reddit is ridiculous.

Look at opencritic or metacritic. How is an 80+ score divisive? That's overwhelmingly positive. It's just silly to see comments on the Internet and thinking "this must be representative of the entire fanbase". Only a small fraction of any fanbase is on the Internet discussing it and that's a fact.

They also said FF16 would meet their longterm goals so I don't know where you're getting the disappointing sales angle from either. It's in the top 5 best selling PS5 games.

Shadow Of The Erdtree is going through a bit of divisive arguments on the Internet itself at the moment. People claiming it's too hard and too inaccessible etc. I guess based on that I should be worried about FromSofts future? Come on bro.

@PuppetMaster most of those games you mentioned are classified as spin-off titles. And honestly I think the online games should have been a separate branch of Final Fantasy games.
(Much like how World of Warcraft is not considered a mainline Warcraft game.)

The practices at Square Enix are just plain weird at this point.
Oh so if Sakaguchi likes the new direction then everyone else should be ok with it? Is that your point?

Personally I don't think "Adventurousness, Courage, and Determination" are key qualities of a Final Fantasy.
I Disagree with Sakaguchi on that point.
Those can be some "key qualities" of any adventure story.
I don't about that interview man..

But since you seem to like brining Sakaguchi up, perhaps you should read into why Final Fantasy exists and why he created it..

He created Final Fantasy because he didn't want to do action games, and he wanted to make an RPG. That's the reason the franchise exists.
And turning the franchise into an action game franchise is kind of disrespectful to not only the fans, but also to itself.

Yeah there's some turn based games still. Usually lower budget project or (like someone said) anime style things.
But nothing like Final Fantasy.

Where's the big epic turn based games with great quality and huge scope?
Well perhaps Dragon Quest XII can be that, who knows.

@Cloud39472 i did say that there were high hopes ff16 would break the spell (of mixed reactions)... but it has clearly failed on that front. for the record, i don't think 100% audience approval is possible with this franchise either, but certainly ff9 and ff10 were (genereally) very well regarded among the community so we don't need to go as far back as ff7. also, i still believe that ff16 is more divisive than ff8 and ff12 (people have warmed up to them over the years) which says a lot.

as for the metacritic score and adequatley grading a game based on a few numbers... the big media outlets don't always get it right. clearly. are we really going to defend how great ff15 is because it too received an 80% rating on metacritic? i sure hope not, because that game is downright terrible in almost every category that matters for a jrpg and final fantasy game in particular. i couldn't even bring myself to complete it despite beating every mainline entry in the series since ff6 prior to that. funny thing, though, is that ff15 sold very well relative to the negativity around it which cannot be said for ff16. it is on its way to being the worst selling mainline entry of the past 25 years.

s-e has not mentioned sales numbers since the game launched a year ago. this level of silence is telling and speaks to the general disappointment of the game. even once it gets released to pc, it is going to struggle to hit the top 10 in sales for a mainline final fantasy game. it is well known at this point that final fantasy 16 failed to meet its sales targets so let's not kid ourselves that it is setting the world on fire. there are various factors why that is, but obviously the negative and/or mixed reception of the game has something to do with it.

https://www.pushsquare.com/news/2024/05/final-fantasy-16-final-fantasy-7-rebirth-fail-to-meet-expectations-on-ps5

@Porco If it took people years to warm up to 8 and 12 then aren't you judging 16 too soon?

So, judging games by comments you see on the Internet is somehow a better metric than critic and user scores? How do you justify that logic? Seems like you just have a bias you want confirmed. Your argument against 15 is essentially "I don't like it so reviews must be wrong".

Ps5 exclusives as a whole don't sell that well except Spider-Man, it's not just FF16. You only need to look at the other exclusives to see this.

You're really going to quote another Push Square article at me? This site isn't the best for genuine articles on Squares sales considering they use bloomberg as their source.

You're going to have to do better than this to "prove" the game is a failure worth worrying about because this evidence is shoddy at best.

Even the poll on this very site is against you, I don't even know what to say at this point.

So boring and annoying that I couldn't bear playing it anymore when Mid joined the game. I would enjoy a visit to the dentist more.
Worse than Final Fantasy Rebirth.

Pre-ordered it, jumped in for a bit, got distracted with other things, heard how it overheats PS5 consoles, jumped back in, lost the feel for combat mechs, dropped it

A year later: Planned to return, lost interest.

I'm good, man. Backlog grew too large. I'll survive.

It’s a great game that would have great benefited from having a deeper rpg system and also would have benefited from being fully multiplatform.

I thought it was OK when it came out and still think it's OK now. An alright action adventure game that really didn't look or feel like a FF game, side missions were abit rubbish, world was 🤷 the combat was meh, wasn't really intrested in the story and personally I've never had any interest in playing it again.

It was also really easy.

Mabey when it comes to Xbox or PC I'll give it another go

@Porco personally I'd put FF15 as one of my favourite FF and jrpg. Although the latter half of the game was....

I'm not a FF fan and FF16 is my first game in series I wanted to play just because it's different. I tried FF7 remake demo and finished it but it's simply not for me. I finished 16 2-3 months ago and for me it's great game, good story and perfect soundtrack. I skipped most of side quests based on reviews and concentrated on main story and I enjoyed it. Eikon boss fights are real highlight of this game, but rpg elements are almost none or have minor impact on gameplay. I'm not sure if I ever come back to DLC's as they do not change how the base game ends and just don't feel motivated enough to play them. Anyway, if 17 would follow 16, I'd like to play it but would definitely improve on rpg elements

Wish I could have known, game was never playable for me because of constant crashing. Square Enix and Playstation both ignored me when reporting it. Really left a bad taste in my mouth.

@DaniPooo I hear you, but that train left the station six FFs ago. From XI forward they've been a huge departure from the original ATB turn-based systems. Your RTS hypothetical doesn't hold much water when they've already genre-hopped to MMO twice now.

At this point FF is an aesthetic with recurring themes/locales/character names. That's all.

Its honestly one of my favorite Final Fantasy games. Combat is great, story is great, Clive is a fantastic protagonist. DLC was awesome. Side quests could be a little hit and miss, but an-in-all a phenomenal game

The game starts really strong by setting up an intrigue between the main characters of the plot. It was almost.... political. I wished it built on this and made this more of a personal, mature story with some obvious significance for the world (big eikons fighting it out) than what we ended up getting. It's a shame, I found myself waiting for the story to get back on track but instead it was drifting more and more away from its initial 'promise'. Gameplay was fine altough not particularly complex, felt like and AA game and not AAA. I was also waiting for the some additional 'wrinkles' and gameplay systems to appear but that was also never the case. It's all just very lean. Voice actors absolutely carry this game like no other.

It was a really good game and I would say it could have even been great but just loses a point for not allowing you to play in FF mode from the start as that mode is much better.

It was a good game although it wasn't worth a replay, although not many games today do (at least not when you're time poor and old). Definitely enjoyed it more than rebirth, which was a shame.

@DaniPooo FF XI isn't spin-off and while some are spin-off but they still has "Final Fantasy" in the front cover except Chocobo Racing, which means those games are still FF games. And why XI and XIV should be separated from the main series when both games has plenty of FF elements in it.

"Oh so if Sakaguchi likes the new direction then everyone else should be ok with it? Is that your point?"

My point is: some fans needs to quit yapping about "True FF game needs to be turn based RPG" and learn to accept the nature of FF series that it always evolved and changing.

I can see why Sakaguchi doesn't want FF to just repeat the same old turn based though. By being stuck with the same formula, it will created franchise fatigue and also killed developers creativity.

"He created Final Fantasy because he didn't want to do action games, and he wanted to make an RPG. That's the reason the franchise exists."

Don't know where you read that he created FF because he didn't want to make action game. Can you put that link in here?

And while it's true he wanted to make an RPG for a very long time because he was impressed with DQ, Ultima, and Wizardry. But the main reasons why he created FF was because back then 1) he doesn't like anything he made so his personal plan was to quit gaming industry and back to college. And 2) Squaresoft was near bankrupt with FF as the final game in case it doesn't sell well and save the company.
https://web.archive.org/web/20110809114048/http://www.develop-online.net/news/28960/Sakaguchi-discusses-the-development-of-Final-Fantasy

Sakaguchi himself never hate action genre or oppose of making action games. Based on the interview from "Beyond Final Fantasy", Sakaguchi thinks that he doesn't have what it takes to make a good action game but he prefer telling stories.
https://finalfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Beyond_Final_Fantasy

He still tried with The Last Story though which is an action game and received quite well. Sadly this game stuck at Wii cause i would played it if it got a port or HD remaster for PS.

"And turning the franchise into an action game franchise is kind of disrespectful to not only the fans, but also to itself."

Definitely not disrespectful when FF never been about turn-based RPG and the founding father himself allowed the franchise to evolves and changing. Hence why we got FF games with different genre under Sakaguchi's belt and he also loves FF XIV & XVI.

And if the majority of FF fans think FF with action combat is very disrespectful for the series then we wouldn't see FF XV, XVI, VII Remake + Rebirth, Crisis Core, or Type-0 selling millions of copies.

"Where's the big epic turn based games with great quality and huge scope?"

I don't know but why limit yourself with huge scope or big budget? I guess you will skip DQ, Chrono Trigger, or FF if they released today with 2D graphics.

Masterpiece, still thinking about it

@PuppetMaster No Final Fantasy XI may not exactly be a spin-off but I will never accept it or XIV as main line games.
To me they should be part of a Final Fantasy Online branch.
Much like how World of Warcraft is not part of the mainline Warcraft franchise.

Why should they be separate from the mainline? Because they're a vastly different kind of game.

Dude.. do you think of Mario an Rabbids as a mainline Mario game? Do you think of Mario & Luigi as mainline Mario games?
Do you think of Pokken tournament as a mainline Pokémon game? Do you think of Hyrule Warriors as a mainline Zelda game? Do you think of Final Fantasy Tactics as a mainline Final Fantasy game?

I think of all of those as spin off titles. Mainly because they're a completely different genre than the mainline games.

It has nothing to do with putting a certain logo on the cover and/or stuffing as many chocobo's, crystals, Moogles and Cid's in the game as you could. Then it would just be a Final Fantasy themed game, not a Final Fantasy game.

A game franchise like Final Fantasy has established a gameplay identity after 10 games.
10 games of single player turn based RPG games where you control a party and take advantage of enemy weaknesses.

Now comes a game that requires you to subscribe to play online with other player and has completely different gameplay.
It's even a different genre.
No matter how good it is and how many Final Fantasy references they throw in. I can't see it as a mainline Final Fantasy title.

Why would turn based combat kill the franchise?
People still play chess, don't they?

I don't remember people complaining about the battle system in 9 or 10 or even 13.
Sure people have complained about a lot of other things about those games, but usually not battle system.
Heck most people seem to like the pure turn-based implementation of the FFX battle system for it's tactical aspects.
When these games were new, I never heard anyone complain about them being turn-based.

It never felt like turn-based was getting stale or boring to me because they always innovated within that genre, coming up with new features for the turn-based system and the other mechanics of the gameplay.

No I do not limit myself to huge budget. I do play DQ and many of the other titles you mentioned.
However Final Fantasy filled a certain spot which no game currently occupies.
(a really high quality, polished Japanese RPG experience that has a sense of taste and strong art direction)

And you know sometimes I am itching to play a Final Fantasy game, the last one I consider a proper Final Fantasy game is 23 years old..
They tried with XIII but it fell flat due to its linear approach, not due to the turn-based battles. The sequel XIII-2 was generally more well received due to it being more open. I never heard anyone complain about the turn-based combat.

So I really don't think turn-based combat is going to kill the franchise.
If anything is going to kill the franchise it's the lack of consistency and identity of the franchise in recent years.
It's absolutely dividing the fans and causing confusion.

Pretty dull, in terms of story, graphics, and combat. More engaging than 15 at least, and with fewer fetch quests. Overall it wouldn’t get in my top 5 FF games, so not a success for me.

Was an alright game but at no point i had the idea i was playing a Final Fantasy game, and large parts of it felt more like a tech demo than a game.

@DaniPooo "Why should they be separate from the mainline? Because they're a vastly different kind of game."

The creators think both are mainline games. So why you put yourself in higher position than the creator when you just a fans who doesn't have any direct creative inputs in the creation of FF XI and XIV or the series in general?

"Dude.. do you think of Mario an Rabbids as a mainline Mario game? Do you think of Mario & Luigi as mainline Mario games?"

Why you always insist this rule that different gameplay = can't be accepted as a mainline game?

Tell me. Who set this rule that developers can't and shouldn't try different gameplay for their mainline games . Is it Bill Gates? Phil Spencer? George Lucas? Who?

If Miyamoto say Mario and Rabids or Mario and Luigi are mainline Mario games then what are you gonna do, cry and scream Miyamoto killed the franchise?

Last time i check, Super Mario Bros. is a mainline Mario game but it's played quite different compare to Mario Bros., the predecessor who started Mario franchise. Did you ever played Mario Bros.? Go try it on NES, GBA, or PC then you should know it plays quite different than Super Mario Bros.

The same for Super Mario 64, Odyssey, Sunshine, and Galaxy are Mario games or mainline Mario games and all of them played quite different compare to Mario Bros and Super Mario Bros. 1, 3, or World.

Or Donkey Kong Country plays really different than Donkey Kong, Donkey Kong Jr, and Donkey Kong 3. But no one in their right mind will say DKC is not a Donkey Kong game just because it plays different compare to the predecessors.

"If anything is going to kill the franchise it's the lack of consistency and identity of the franchise in recent years.
It's absolutely dividing the fans and causing confusion."

For 9 games or in the span of 14 years since FF I released, FF characters doesn't have voice and that allowed FF fans to dream and fantasized what kind of voices for Warriors of Lights, Cloud, Tifa, Terra, Sephiroth, Leon, Kain, Cecil, or Kefka. But suddenly for the 10th game, Sakaguchi said 'let these characters have their own voices'. Sakaguchi also approved FF X without ATB, a gameplay mechanic which has been a staple for the franchise for 6 games. What Sakaguchi did breaks "the consistency and identity of the franchise" and thus FF franchise was died...

Lol nah. FF franchise are still alive and well. It sold more than 180 million copies ww despite all the big changed in the recent years. FF X itself sold more than 14 million copies on PS2 alone and 21 million copies combines with the remaster. Your fearmongering is just silly af.

The one who confused are some arrogant fans who always thinks what they wants should be the top priority and used as a based to create new main FF. These fans doesn't care if FF director / team have their own version of Final Fantasy that they want to make. I mean, who cares about artistic and creative freedom for developers right? These devs are just paid robots who must listen to the fans! /s

@PuppetMaster the "creators" can sometimes have stupid ideas and I am encouraging people to speak up about it.

SquareEnix are not perfect beings or gods that never make mistakes.

We the players are ultimately the ones who decide whether or not a product is going to be a success of fail. So why shouldn't we make our voices heard?
And why shouldn't SquareEnix care? Because if they make a game that we don't want and won't buy, then they loose money.

There is no written rule that a game can't change genre.
but in the history of mankind it's been shown that we are a species that tend to value tradition. If you change tradition too much, you'll upset people.
It's just the way things are. (and the key words are "too much")
Changing some aspect here and there is usually fine and even valued to a degree.
I call it common sense (which you shouldn't need a manual to understand)

But let's say that your country decides to stop all the creepy/spooky stuff on halloween and ban all the trick or treating.
Instead we should all dance around a big pumpkin and sing song about some saint or whatever.

that would upset people, obviously. Because you're taking away years of tradition.

If we are talking about Mario Bros vs Super Mario Bros (or early Donkey Kong games) there's a big difference, these games were just in the beginning of the franchise, before they had defined identities and a traditions to follow.
When a franchise is new you can experiment with it's identity differently then what you can once it's old and have an established identity and tradition already.

I understand that you are extremely open to the idea of change and seem to have no understanding to how anyone could want a franchise to carry on tradition.

But there's plenty of people who do care about these things.

Would you complain if Square Enix Decided to return to a turn based formula for Final Fantasy?

It’s a great game, but an okay FF game, imho. I’d rank it the best since PS1 days though.

@DaniPooo "the "creators" can sometimes have stupid ideas and I am encouraging people to speak up about it."

There's a BIG different between:
1) You dislike the creators ideas and being vocal about it just because the ideas are not line up with your own philosophy of what the game / franchise should be.
2) Ideas that doesn't work at every level of gaming design and deserved to be call 'stupid'.

I would 100% agreed with you for number 2 but what you and some FF fans did is number 1. Making mainline FF games with action combat or MMO are NOT stupid ideas, especially when they are sold and received well among many FF fans. That means the ideas are working fine even if you or some fans doesn't like it.

"We the players are ultimately the ones who decide whether or not a product is going to be a success of fail. So why shouldn't we make our voices heard?"

As my old man says 'Speak with your wallet' is the best way to make your voices heard. You don't like what you see then don't buy it, tell your opinion to the developers like a respectful human being, and moved on.

"There is no written rule that a game can't change genre.
but in the history of mankind it's been shown that we are a species that tend to value tradition. If you change tradition too much, you'll upset people."

I'm pretty sure recent FF games still value and carried a lot of FF traditions despite they didn't used some old mechanics. For FF XVI case:

• Crystal? Check.
• Chocobo? Check.
• Cid? Check.
• Medieval kingdoms? Check.
• Classic FF summons like Ifrit, Shiva, Bahamut, Garuda, Ramuh, Odin, Phoenix, etc? Check.
• Classic FF monsters like Behemoth, Bombs, Morbol, Ahriman, Flan, etc? Check.
• Dragoon Knight? Check.
• The protags has their own ship and the ship has name as a reference to a ship in classic FF? Check.
• Sidequest? Check.
• Magic? Check.
• Leveling system with experience points just like old FF? Check.

The most notable ones missing are playable party, turn based, overworld exploration, and job changes. But of course some fans are still upset as if XVI completely ditched all FF traditions lol.

"When a franchise is new you can experiment with it's identity differently then what you can once it's old and have an established identity and tradition already."

Who created and set this rule that developers can't experiment new stuff that breaks the tradition for their old-established franchise, you?

At the time Super Mario 64 and Super Mario RPG came out in 1996, Mario franchise already 11 years old and established its identity. But Nintendo experimented new stuff for the franchise which Super Mario 64 and RPG doesn't plays traditionally the same as Super Mario 1, 3, or World.

The same with Zelda. At the time Ocarina of Time came out in 1998, Zelda franchise already 12 years old. But OoT was groundbreaking and quite a massive departure compare to classic Zelda games. Then Nintendo did again with Majora's of mask and Breath of the Wild.

"Would you complain if Square Enix Decided to return to a turn based formula for Final Fantasy?"

You wouldn't asked me that question when i never say i hate turn based or opposed the idea of main FF used turn based again. But i bet you would complain if FF XVII doesn't used turn based and then called it betrays the franchise tradition and identity.

@PuppetMaster I read the first few lines and your checklist as well as the Mario part.

the checklist and it's mostly full of thematic STUFF, none of which has anything to with the actual gameplay of the GAME. except a few small things that also exist in a billion other games that does not have Final Fantasy in the title.

About Mario, Mario RPG is a spin-off, it's not mainline, it's never been mainline.. it's closest relatives are the spin-off franchises Paper Mario as well as Mario and Luigi. You don't know what a spin-off franchise is or what?

Mario 64 is trying new things sure. but it's still a platformer with Mario where you jump through levels and explore. and stomp on Goombas.. The core Mario essence is still there, it's the same genre. It's just in 3D and have sandbox levels instead of linear start -> Finish-pole levels.

I never said that change is bad..
As long as it's done within the confines of the genre change and innovation is a good thing that should be celebrated.
But change the genre and you're bound to tick some people off.

Anyway I lost interest in continuing this discussion with you.
You and I will never agree that much is certain.

@KundaliniRising333 A lot*

Greatest Final Fantasy game!